The following was submitted by Laura Bruce:
I've seen something called the HP Lovecraft Historical Society referenced in one or two places on the web, but I cannot find a webpage for them or a way to find out more about joining, etc. Is anyone on this list a member or knows how to contact/join the society? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
The following is a reply from Henry Paget-Lowe:
At the risk of receiving the same rude smack in the face that TJS was given:
CoC is great, but the majority of posting list-members seem to think that "The Game" is the only subject to be considered "on-topic." If it doesn't have something to do with gaming, they don't seem to have much to say. It gets a little boring after awhile.
There are vast fields of diverse and "on-topic" subjects to be explored through discussion, debate, and the sharing of information. It's been 62 years since HPL's death. How many authors influenced; how many thousands of stories, articles and essays written; how many artists, film makers and even musicians inspired.
I will apologize in advance to those that will undoubtedly spark up their flamethrowers, but there is more in this universe known as the Cthulhu Mythos than just a game called Call of Cthulhu. Hell, Chaosium alone has published 18 volumes of fiction, with another 18 (at last count) in the works.
I shouldn't have to remind people that the "mission statement" of this
list says (in part):
"[...] a mailing list for Call of Cthulhu, H.P. Lovecraft, and the Cthulhu Mythos. It is intended to be an open forum for free discussion of the Mythos in *ALL* these forms [...]"
Grimjack offered up his .02:
At the risk of getting the same smack from the other side of the issue, "a little boring" is better than overly heated, in my experience..
> There are vast fields of diverse and "on-topic" subjects to be explored
> through discussion, debate, and the sharing of information. It's been 62
> years since HPL's death. How many authors influenced; how many thousands
> of stories, articles and essays written; how many artists, film makers
> and even musicians inspired.
I would disagree with that as a lot of us disagree on what "on-topic" should be. Your arguement can be taken to it's illogical extreme to cover damn near anything.
> I will apologize in advance to those that will undoubtedly spark up their
> flamethrowers, but there is more in this universe known as the Cthulhu
> Mythos than just a game called Call of Cthulhu. Hell, Chaosium alone has
> published 18 volumes of fiction, with another 18 (at last count) in the
And there are a lot of us who are hoping they'll get back to publishing game supplements, too. :) Maybe even trying to lure back some of the Great Old Writers like Kevin Ross.
> I shouldn't have to remind people that the "mission statement" of this
> list says (in part):
> "[...] a mailing list for Call of Cthulhu, H.P. Lovecraft, and the
> Cthulhu Mythos.
> It is intended to be an open forum for free discussion of the Mythos in
> *ALL* these forms [...]"
And seeing how well that particular mission statement has worked, maybe it's time to branch off the list into 'game-only' and 'everything-else-only" lists, since we seem to be butting heads at the fence line, metaphorically. I've stoically sat through temper tantrums on either side of the issue, and I think a change is due.
So unnamed list admins from beyond time and space, please consider seriously the possibility of splitting the list into seperate entities so those that wish to dicuss the game can do so without interruption, and those that wish to discuss eveything else under the sun concerning Lovecraft's influence on the 20th Century can do as it pleases them.
(and those who want the whole shebang can subscribe to both.)
Ricardo Mendez replied to the original message:
Busy busy busy. I have a couple of unfinished thoughts on CoC that I wish to share with the list, but for now I'm concentrating what time I have on the Walker in the Wastes mailing list (since it doubles as preparation for my saturday sessions).
>PS - The webpage is coming along nicely, although I could still use
>suggestions for reference pages :)
Well, a bunch of Strange Aeons refugees are working on Strange Vistas, but since I'm waiting to move the site to the new location (I'm ironing a couple of site bugs) I hadn't posted the URL yet. It's at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/4231/ Be aware that it's a beta and quite incomplete, content-wise. As soon as we move we'll be sending out a general call for submissions.
Ricardo added his .02 to grimjack's message:
How would be properly discuss CoC (the game) without discussing Lovecraft and Mythos in general? We would set ourselves in some pretty stiff patterns and one of the lists would be reduced to "in Masks of Nyarlathotep, Chapter 32, should NPC 16 help the investigators?". Mind you, these _are_ needed, but there is also the way I took with Walker in the Wastes: create a separate list for handling the game-specific messages.
Also, it's better a few off-topic messages than no messages at all. Consider how quiet the list has been lately and imagine how it would be if we split it. After all, some off-topic messages can be food for thought and spark some interesting game-related discussions. As long as those messages aren't flaming people, I say bring them on!
Ricardo J. Méndez Castro
Who has been off-game-topic more than once himself and is just about to follow this message up with another off-game-topic one. ;)
Peter Devlin added:
>> CoC is great, but the majority of posting list-members seem to think that
>> "The Game" is the only subject to be considered "on-topic." If it doesn't
>> have something to do with gaming, they don't seem to have much to say.
>> It gets a little boring after awhile.
If this is the case then contribute a topic to the list and start a discussion. I try to kickstart discussions wherever possible but it doesn't always prove practical. I think you'll find that many listmembers take the typical mailing list approach of silence if they don't have anything major to say. That doesn't mean they aren't following what goes on. And I've noticed over the years a tail off as holiday seasons approach.
For what it's worth I think the opposite of this statement, most of the listmembers are quite good info sources regards issuses not directly game-related. A quick summary of the last 12 months topics includes HPL, authors (again!), subway details, computer games, Mythos stories, Turin shroud, cloning, Film Noir settings, music, gold and currency, movies, Egyptology, languages, HPL's African settings...
>At the risk of getting the same smack from the other side of the issue,
>"a little boring" is better than overly heated, in my experience..
I can see Grim's point on this. I use e-mail at work and fortunately we have an ISDN connection. For people on modems the less-relevant material such as flames may be a problem.
And can we please do away with this apparent 'enemy camps' mindset? I've personally taken heavy licks 2 or 3 times for my own boorish behaviour since I joined the list. In each circumstance I've been able to see the opposing point, reach a compromise and I've apologised for any offence caused. I think it would be sad if the recent case of 'I'm-right-screw-you-I'm-leaving' divided the list community. Debate is good, save the paranoia for the game!
>> There are vast fields of diverse and "on-topic" subjects to be
>> through discussion, debate, and the sharing of information. It's been 62 SNIP
>> and even musicians inspired.
Agreed, but are we on the same list? We seem to do the authors / Mythos thing quite frequently and the HPL purists continue to hold sway on that topic. (That may be why many of the more creative 'play-with-the-Mythos' game-related postings have ended up on the DG list rather than the SA list, it has a more receptive audience). Likewise we frequently discuss music, movies, written material et al. As yet I haven't seen any of these other 'vast fields of subjects' being opened for discussion or my inbox would be overflowing and I'd be very happy. I'd be delighted to lurk on such discussions even if I don't feel able to contribute positively.
>> I will apologize in advance to those that will undoubtedly spark up
>> flamethrowers, but there is more in this universe known as the Cthulhu SNIP
>And there are a lot of us who are hoping they'll get back to publishing
>game supplements, too. :) Maybe even trying to lure back some of the
>Great Old Writers like Kevin Ross.
Gotta agree with Grim on this one. For me Mythos (and much other) fiction is entwined with my gaming experience. I doubt I'd be as active on the mailing list if the gaming angle was removed.
>> I shouldn't have to remind people that the "mission statement" of this
>> list says (in part):
>> "[...] a mailing list for Call of Cthulhu, H.P. Lovecraft, and the
>> Cthulhu Mythos.
>> It is intended to be an open forum for free discussion of the Mythos in
>> *ALL* these forms [...]"
>And seeing how well that particular mission statement has worked, maybe
>it's time to branch off the list into 'game-only' and
>'everything-else-only" lists, since we seem to be butting heads at the
>fence line, metaphorically. I've stoically sat through temper tantrums
>on either side of the issue, and I think a change is due.
I think this is a bad move but perhaps others will differ. IMHO I don't think we can readily separate discussion on, for example, topics such as Egyptology in the Mythos from their gaming content. We'll get a lot of cross-posting and more bandwidth wastage.
Perhaps a straw poll would be appropriate to find out how many non-gamers subscribe to the list and who would prefer gaming material moved elsewhere. I've been working on the perhaps mistaken premise that this list was primarily game-related. Time for a rethink on my part. But, once more, I think it would be a pretty sad move.
Amen, brother. :)
> Maybe even trying to lure back some of the Great Old Writers like Kevin Ross.
After the very good "Dreaming Stone", I haven't read anything by him... Also, where's Scott David Aniolowski? Penelope Love? Geoff Gillan? Fred Behrendt? Todd Woods? etc. etc.
Chaz Engan added:
My brief thought on this. The Strange Aeons list was originally started by gamers as a forum for all things Mythos. That included the game, and how it all related -- game, literature, the many diverse fields of interest and study that wound together into the worldview and the art. For us, at the time, all these things were a part of our gaming experience as well as our experience as lovers of the Work. They still are.
As one of the originals, I would be very disappointed indeed if the streams were to diverge....
Dustin Wright voiced his opinion:
I don't have as much time to post to this this as I'd like to have. I expect that's true for the other Chaosium dudes as well. Keeping this company chugging along towards it goal of finicial stability and monthly releases of COC rpg and fiction is more than a full time job for all of us.
I will take a brief moment to register an opinion:
I don't see why this list can't handle both discussions of COC: The game, and other topics concerning Lovecraft's legacy, influences, and other literary or historical topics that relate to Call of Cthulhu.
I think that there will always be topics that seem "off topic" to some member(s) of our Tribe. For the most part, I think it's pretty easy to ignore threads that are not of interest to you.
So long as we keep from flaming or insulting other list members their views, things will run pretty smoothly.
For the most part, we employees are pretty laid back. I think most of our fellow members of the Chaosium tribe (that's you folks who support Chaosium through playing and reading our stuff) are pretty laid back and reasonable as well.
So do we really need to split this list into smaller lists who wish to discuss only narrower topics? I'm inclined to say no. But that's just my opinion which is no better or worse than anyone elses. It's just an opinion.
Davide Mana added:
I'll add my voice to the chorus, and cast my vote (or preference, or whatever) against the splitting of the list. We seem to be a pretty eclectic bunch, all things considered, and it's silly to think that a non-gamer can't offer some important insight on a game situation being debated, or that a gamer has nothing to add in a literary discussion.
Cross-pollination is essential.
Also, and please _please_ notice that with all this I mean no offence, let's not start thinking that those that do not share our interests are not entitled to comment.
And as many have already said, if a topic does not interest you, you can ignore the message or scroll down if you are a digest-kind-of-guy.
Anyway, as the absence of posts has been (erroneously, IMHO) interpreted as a sign of the list's not overly lively status, I'll for one will try and post some more.
On any kind of topic.
Who needs sleeping, anyway?
JP put in his .02:
Well I would be inclined to fall behind you. From my experience, all RPGs mailing list cover so much ground: from scenario inspirations (movies, books, music) to rules discussion to game offers/look fors. I think this list is alright the way it is. Fragmenting will only mean that there will be less people discussing a given topic. Not a good idea when one (like myself) look to the list as an open-view forum where I can witness other takes on the game. Since in general a gaming group all play in a similar fashion all their games.
I say that splitting up the list would make the list so precise that the same topics would keep coming up all the time.
Eric Rowe (List Admin) posted:
This does not mean I won't post polite requests to refrain from completely unrelated threads. Anyone can post off-topic occasionally. I only ask people to take things to e-mail if they become both heated and irrelevant to the list. I hope this seems reasonable to most of you, and you'll note I've only had to do it this once. Feel free to flame-away as long as it is vaguely relevant.
>On a side note, I do a lot of lurking and am only recently coming out of my
>shell, so no, please don't split the list. I actually got a lot of
>entertainment and information from the WWII thing, it was just the tone that
>made it so nasty. Besides I've seen plenty of posts before that debacle on
>historical accuracy that were very useful. I'd, for one, wouldn't be upset
>if TJS came back to the list, as long as everyone said bygones were bygones,
>and gave each other a friendly hug. Life's too short to be angry.
In case anyone gets the wrong impression, TJS was not removed from the list. He has been politely asked to take one thread that was getting nasty and irrelevant to e-mail, and asked to apologize (again) for posting private e-mail the sender did not wish posted. He has not even been officially warned (just asked to play nice). Any lack of posting by TJS is due to his choice, and in reaction to his feelings about treatment he has received in response to his postings on the list.
My first thought was, "Uh oh, this is gonna be ugly." I scanned my messy room in vain for my asbestos Elder Sign.
But to my suprise, everything was polite and straightforward concerning the issue at hand, and thoughtfully stated, as a bonus. I really respect that, and the people who expressed those opinions. (And those that chose to remain silent as well.)
The list, IMHO, really needed a public vote of confidence, and I think it's passed with strongly-held convictions for remaining as it is, beauty and blemishes. I hope the list and it's members prosper by the wisdom and unity of those beliefs.
Returning to lurk mode unless I think I have something substantial (or at least on-topic) to add...
As you surf this site, please keep in mind that if you see any information or know of a site that we should link to, please do not hesitate to email us or to leave a note in our up and coming Guestbook.